This
is a question that requires addressing. There is a lot of controversy about it.
As with all of my studies I will tackle it FOR MY OWN EDIFICATION and put it
online in case others may find it useful.
Are
we spiritual
I
think it is a problem of definition. What do we mean by SPIRITUAL and what do
we mean by
I
use 2 Corinthians
“While we look not at
the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things
which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.” (2
Corinthians
“Now faith is the
substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1
AV)
1.
There is the visible, temporal heaven. We can SEE the
clouds, the sun, the stars and other bodies of the visible, temporal heaven.
Scripture tells us that this heaven was CREATED.
“ In the beginning God created the heaven and the
earth.” (Genesis 1:1 AV)
Scripture
also tells us that this heaven will be DESTROYED. It has a use-by date.
“ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in
the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the
elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are
therein shall be burned up.” (2 Peter
2. There is also the
invisible, eternal heaven. We can’t see this heaven with the eyes in our head. We
can only ‘see’ it with our imagination, fuelled by the WORDS of scripture –
i.e. the WORD of God.
“ And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.” (John
“ The first man
is of the earth, earthy: the second man
is the Lord from heaven.” (1 Corinthians
“ For we know
that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building
of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.” (2 Corinthians 5:1
AV)
“ That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, …….. according to
the working of his mighty power, Which
he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own
right hand in the heavenly places,” (Ephesians 1:17-20 AV)
“ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek
those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of
God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
(Colossians 3:1-2 AV)
God
the Father of glory and our Lord Jesus Christ are most definitely not in our
visible, temporal heaven. The invisible, eternal heaven is similar to the
realms conjured up in our minds by works of fiction such as ‘Dune’, ‘Harry
Potter’, ‘Lord of the Rings’, ‘Thomas Covenant’ etc. The difference between the
realms of fiction writers and the eternal, heavenly realm of scripture is that
we believe the heavenly realm evoked in our minds by scripture to REALLY EXIST,
whereas we know the realms of fiction writers do not exist. We ‘suspend disbelief’
for a time so that we can enjoy the Lord of the Rings trilogy of novels or
movies. We banish disbelief and practice ongoing FAITH with regard to the
unseen realms described in our Bible.
“That the trial of your faith, being much more
precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be
found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom
having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye
rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your
faith, even the salvation of your souls.” (1 Peter 1:7-9 AV)
Faith
will become unnecessary when we are changed and can actually see the things
that were formerly invisible. We will see him as he is when we have celestial
eyes.
“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not
yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall
be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:2 AV)
1. The
“ For this Agar is mount Sinai in
It has
existed in some form or another since before the time of Abraham. Melchizedek, to whom Abraham tithed, was king
of
“ And Melchizedek king of
2. There is also the
invisible, eternal
“But
“ But ye are come unto
Sion
(or
The
earthly
“ And the king and his men went to
There
is a visible, temporal heaven and an invisible, eternal heaven. There is a
visible, temporal
We
know that there is a visible, temporal
Paul
light-heartedly boasted of his credentials in this
“ Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are
they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.”
(2 Corinthians
“ Though I might also have confidence in
the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the
flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth
day, of the stock of
Modern-day
Judaisers would do well to read on a little beyond Philippians 3:5. Our apostle
counted his impeccable credentials as an Israelite BUT DUNG that he may win
Christ. Why are so many Christians today so keen on being
“ Concerning zeal, persecuting the church;
touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I
counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless,
and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ
Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,” (Philippians 3:6-8 AV)
At
this time I am only aware of one scripture that suggests that we grace age
saints are citizens of a heavenly
“ And as many as walk according to this
rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the
What
is the Israel of God? Was Paul referring only to Jews? He must have been
referring to saints because they are “of God”.
Christ-rejecting
“ For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision
availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.” (Galatians
A
true Jew is not a Jew “after the flesh” but a Jew “after the Spirit”.
“ For he is not a Jew, which is one
outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and
circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose
praise is not of men, but of God.” (Romans 2:28-29 AV)
There
is an ‘Israel of God’ and being circumcised or not is irrelevant in determining
who is in this Israel of God. But I think Paul is speaking only of Jews in
Romans 2:28-29 above. Throughout his ministry he fiercely opposed those who
tried to turn the Gentile believers into Jews. Why would he exacerbate this
problem by encouraging Gentile believers to think of themselves as ‘true Jews?’
Did he not blast Peter for compelling the Gentiles to live after the manner of
the Jews by the example of his separation from them?
“ But when Peter was come to
It
seems most likely to me that when Paul spoke of the ‘Israel of God’ he was
speaking of the saved remnant (Romans 11:5) of his Hebrew people – Hebrews with
heart circumcision. Could Paul not also have spoken of the “Greece of God” or
the “Rome of God”? Is it not just confusing and confounding things to say that
we are
The
Lord Jesus informed us that the Father is the husbandman.
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the
husbandman.” (John 15:1 AV)
According
to James the husbandman is waiting patiently for the “precious fruit of the
earth” -
“Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the
coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the
earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter
rain.” (James 5:7 AV)
The
precious fruit of the earth are the sons of God; the glorified saints.
“For the earnest expectation of the
creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.” (Romans
So
here is the scripture that most theologians use to prove that we are grafted
into
“For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump
is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the
branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in
among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;”
(Romans
So
we have two types of olive tree branches in this analogy - wild olive tree
branches and holy olive tree branches.
DOES
THE HOLY OLIVE TREE REPRESENT
Are
Seth, Enoch and Noah holy branches on the holy olive tree? YES.
Are
Seth, Enoch and Noah members of the house of
The
house of
“As for me, behold, my covenant is with
thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.” (Genesis 17:4 AV)
But
Abraham is most certainly a holy branch on God’s holy olive tree.
The
holy olive tree in Paul’s analogy includes a majority of holy branches from the
house of
SO,
IF NOT
The
answer should be fairly obvious. THE HOLY OLIVE TREE REPRESENTS THE HOUSEHOLD
OF GOD.
The
household of God includes Gentiles from before the time of
We
saved Gentiles are “fellowcitizens with the saints and OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF
GOD”.
“Now therefore ye are no more strangers
and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of
God;” (Ephesians
Paul
had ample opportunity to tell us we were ‘OF ISRAEL’. He did not. Rather he
fought against those Jews who would turn saved Gentiles into Jews (e.g.
Galatians
We
Gentiles of this current dispensation are not grafted into
We
are citizens of “
“ And Melchizedek king of
The
ascended and glorified Lord Jesus Christ is our ETERNAL and UNIVERSAL king and
priest after the order of Melchizedek. Melchizedek was a Gentile king and
priest of the most high God to the Gentiles. (There were no Jews around at that
time.)
In
a world in which “all have been concluded in unbelief (Romans
“ Now if the fall of them be the riches of
the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much
more their fulness?” (Romans
But
there is no need to bless
The
Melchizekian type of priest is not of the earthly
Jewish Levite type of priest to a particular nation (
“ The LORD hath sworn, and will not
repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.” (Psalms
110:4 AV)
“ For it is evident that our Lord
sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that
after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal
commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest
for ever after the order of Melchisedec.” (Hebrews 7:14-17 AV)
For
the duration of his life on earth, Jesus Christ was an Israelite – his body and
soul were the body and soul of an Israelite and he was an earthly “minister of
the circumcision” (Romans 15:8). But his HEAVENLY ministry is after the order
of Melchizedek – he is now the king and priest of the most high God in a
universal and eternal sense. His ROLE and GLORY have changed and expanded. But
he is forever humanly identified as “Jesus of Nazareth” because that is who he
was for his time on earth.
There
are varying degrees of glory in heaven (1 Corinthians 15:40-41) and, as a
minister of the circumcision (Jesus of Nazareth) became God’s eternal king and
high priest to the world, so the heavenly roles of all his saints are expanded
and universal also. They will not be NARROWED DOWN or STRAITENED to a
particular nationality. Jesus’ role was EXPANDED from a particular nation to
the whole world.
To
make the church spiritual Israel is to narrow it down, or straiten it, from its
true role as the CHURCH OF GOD – the God who made the Gentiles also (Romans
3:29).
If
Jesus was still “Jesus of Nazareth” after his ascension and glorification,
“ And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And
he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.” (Acts 22:8 AV)
then
will I not still be “John of Hamilton, New Zealand” after my (hoped for)
ascension and glorification?
Yes.
I am in Christ but I am a GENTILE SOUL in Christ. My Gentile soul has not
become a Jewish soul by my being in Christ. The Spirit of Christ, the
longsuffering, compassion and love of Christ dwells in me, but I am a lousy
carpenter and not in the least interested in fishing. My manner of living is
not in my spirit but in my soul. The Spirit of Christ is conforming my spirit
to his but my soul is still John of Hamilton, New Zealand. The Lord’s soul is
still Jesus of Nazareth.
I
am a Gentile by the manner in which I live – an aspect of my soul-nature.
Others are Jews by the manner in which they live.
“ But when I saw that they walked not
uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them
all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do
the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?” (Galatians
If
I meet Jesus of Nazareth in heaven he will still be a Jew from
Adam
and Eve were Gentiles. Enoch was a Gentile. Noah was a Gentile. Melchizedek was
a Gentile. Abraham started out as a Gentile. Luke was a Gentile. There is
nothing wrong with being a Gentile for eternity.
I
started out this investigation feeling fairly sure that I would prove that we
are spiritual
I
have both EARTHLY and HEAVENLY reasons for this conclusion.
BECOMING
SPIRITUAL, i.e. BEING BORN OF THE SPIRIT, DOES NOT CHANGE YOUR NATIONALITY.
YOUR NATIONALITY BELONGS TO YOUR SOUL, NOT YOUR SPIRIT.
Spiritual
The
soul has a nationality but the spirit has no nationality. To give the spirit a
nationality is to try and give it an impossible attribute. Our spirits
transcend things like nationality. Love is love regardless of nationality. The
love that shone through the British Beatles music was a major factor in the
dismantling of the Russian Iron Curtain – a love that transcended nationalities
and languages.
My
Spirit is joined to the Lord’s Spirit but that does not make my soul an
Israelite’s soul. I was a Kiwi soul long before my spirit was quickened.
“ And so it is written, The first man Adam
was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.” (1
Corinthians
The
Spirit has no gender or nationality. One’s character, gender and nationality,
one’s manner of living, are NOT ASPECTS OF THE SPIRIT BUT ASPECTS OF THE SOUL.
The
soul of Jesus is the soul of an Israelite from
Jesus
was the “firstborn from the dead (Colossians
The
earthly role of Jesus of Nazareth, a minister of the circumcision (
So
we who are IN Christ are not IN a priest of
To
call the Church spiritual